My friend Kim Paffenroth who writes on science fiction and horror, and whom I met this year at Cornerstone Festival when he spoke on his book on George Romero’s zombie films, recently let me know that copies of his earlier book that he co-authored with Thomas Bertonneau, The Truth is Out There (Brazos Press, 2006), are now available for $10 that includes postage and handling. Orders must be placed through Kim. See his blog for more information.
Dr. James McGrath is Assistant Professor of Religion at Butler University. Dr. McGrath not only teaches on Biblical Studies, but also on the interesting topic of science fiction in religion. This is a fascinating area of research interest for me, specifically as it connects with film and television studies, popular culture studies, and expressions of contemporary Western spirituality.
Dr. McGrath recently agreed to respond to a few questions and share his thoughts on this topic.
TheoFantastique: Dr. McGrath, thank you for participating in this interview. Your academic work in religion and science fiction is a fascinating one, and one that I have been interested in for some time. Let’s begin with some of your background. How did you come to develop an interest in and academic focus on religion and science fiction?
James McGrath: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to talk about this subject that I find extremely interesting, as you probably already guessed. It was interest that drove it, but it then escalated beyond anything I initially anticipated. My main area of academic work is Biblical studies. There seem to be quite a number of people who work on Biblical studies who also have a side-interest in science fiction. Marti Steussy, for instance, is an Old Testament/Hebrew Bible scholar who has actually published sci-fi novels. Perhaps it is because scholars in these fields tend to be aware of the specific historical worldview of the Biblical texts, and if we are also people who reflect on matters of faith, then we realize more than most the ways in which changing worldviews correlate with developments in religious worldviews.
Not long before starting to teach at Butler University, I had begun to return to an exploration of science fiction that had waned for a while. Perhaps it was because I had very long train commutes that year, and was finally able to catch up on reading for pleasure (e.g., I read several books in Frank Herbert’s Dune series then). But there were also a number of movies of some significance, such as The Matrix. At any rate, my department at Butler is fairly small, and so there are opportunities to explore side interests and teach on them. I thus introduced a core curriculum course on religion and science fiction, and it was a huge success. I decided that this might be something worth writing on as well, so I proposed a conference paper on Christianity, Buddhism and Baudrillard in The Matrix. Before I knew it, I was finding myself in touch with people who were also working in these areas. I never anticipated that this would become such a long-term area of research and publication – but I’m glad it has. This is due at least in part to not only the continuing appearance of every more science fiction with religious themes, but also the publication of an increasing number of scholarly books on the subject as well.
TheoFantastique: This may seem like a basic question, but I notice on your website that there are a variety of differing answers to it. How would you define “science fiction” in your studies?
James McGrath: I have pretty much taken a pragmatic approach and been willing to include anything that bears the label “science fiction.” One can define it more broadly or more narrowly, and one can certainly get philosophical about the question. One could easily dispute the placement of The X-Files in that category, for instance, since it is not really futuristic and very little intersects with science. Indeed, Richard Dawkins once commented that its message was anti-scientific, since Scully was consistently wrong in her scientific skepticism. And if one can include The X Files then one can probably also include Left Behind. But if I had to offer a definition, it would probably be that science fiction is a sub-genre of speculative fiction, a more inclusive category. Sci-fi will by definition involve some particular reference to or presupposition of some specific development in science and/or technology. But I wouldn’t say it necessarily has to adopt a purely scientific outlook. I’d classify LOST as science fiction, even though it is equally mystery, and even though it is unclear precisely how many of the mysteries will be given answers that are in some sense scientific by the time the series ends. There is enough scientific speculation connected to the show for the category to fit.
TheoFantastique: There has been a long connection between science fiction and religion. Can you sketch some of that in the past, and how this continues in the present?
James McGrath: Many would identify Frankenstein as the first work of science fiction, and it certainly addresses religious issues – in particular the whole notion of technology allowing us to “play God.” One can trace it even earlier, though. Many themes from 1 Enoch, an ancient Jewish apocalyptic work, resurface in recent science fiction. Apocalyptic literature was all about journeys to another, celestial world where the traveler encounters strange non-human creatures. Perhaps it is really the earliest science fiction. Even though there was generally no technology involved in the travel, nothing we would call “scientific explanations,” apocalyptic works often share the critique of (or at least cautionary remarks about) technology implicit in much of the more pessimistic sci-fi. In 1 Enoch, angels were responsible for revealing the technologies of making weapons and jewelry. In Men In Black and more recently Star Trek: Enterprise, the aliens gave us Velcro. As far back as we can trace literature – which was itself, at least in part, a technological development, so this isn’t too surprising – we find expressions of concern about the effect of technology on religious life, on traditional values, and on society in general. If we define science in such a way as to include technology even in the “pre-scientific age,” then we can trace these themes from very ancient sources into modern science fiction.
TheoFantastique: How do you explain the connection between science fiction and religion?
James McGrath: Science fiction gives us the chance to speculate about big questions. Will humanity travel beyond earth? Will we survive as a species or will we destroy ourselves? If we could travel in time, what would we see if we went back to Jerusalem early in the 3rd decade C.E.? What would we see if we went back to the beginning of the universe, or forward to its end? In many respects, science fiction explores the limits of current science and speculates about what might be beyond them. And it is precisely in the areas where not only our knowledge but our tools for finding answers run out that people have traditionally turned to religion for answers.
The other main reason is that religious beliefs are a major source of our values, and technology raises ethical questions. On the current Battlestar Galactica series, for instance, we are given the opportunity to ask what it means to be human. A lot of people find the idea that human beings are like machines to be dehumanizing and opposed to the value and worth traditionally attributed to human persons. But if we succeed in creating artificial intelligences, this will not necessarily demean us. Very likely, it will force us to expand the definition of who or what is valuable beyond merely human rights. The same thing will occur if we ever have contact with intelligent extraterrestrials. Science fiction provides wonderful opportunities for getting into those gray areas that most people avoid, unless they are philosophers.
TheoFantastique: With the cultural changes in the West in the shift to late modernity or postmodernity do you think there has been an increase in religious or spiritual topics being discussed or incorporated within science fiction?
James McGrath: Absolutely. The best example (to preempt your next question) is to trace the Star Trek series in its various incarnations. The original series took a wholly modern outlook. There was no one with any publicly-visible religious beliefs on the Enterprise. They may have had them, but this was a secular enterprise, if you’ll allow the pun. On their journeys they encountered two kinds of civilizations: ones that were enlightened and secular like themselves, and ones that were primitive and in which religion was mere superstition that was used to manipulate people and/or keep them from progressing. If we fast forward to Deep Space Nine, we find that postmodernism has radically altered the outlook of the show. On this space station, everyone (except for most of the humans, interestingly enough) has a religious tradition, and everyone participates in each other’s traditions and rituals, with plenty of room for putting together one’s own eclectic smorgasbord of beliefs. Sci-fi certainly speculates about the future, but it also reflects the present, and because it is the future as seen from the present, it provides plenty of opportunities to reflect on our present values and our aims.
TheoFantastique: Let’s talk about another specific example. Your website includes links to Star Wars. Can you give us some examples as to how this franchise explores religion or spirituality?
James McGrath: Since I’ve already mentioned Star Trek in relation to the shift from modern to postmodern, let me use Star Wars as an example of how Eastern traditions have become influential. Particularly starting in the 1960s, Americans became aware of and began exploring Eastern religious traditions – in particular Hinduism and Buddhism – as never before. Star Wars was the first major motion picture to not only incorporate such concepts, but to bring them to center stage. The idea of “the force” certainly has parallels in Eastern traditions – perhaps Taoism in particular. For a while, many religion scholars thought that George Lucas had got it wrong – he had the Jedi speak of the need to “bring balance to the force,” but that seemed to involve wiping out the bad guys. In Taoism, on the other hand, the notion of a balance between Yin and Yang is not about a struggle between good and evil, but about opposing forces that are both necessary to existence. In this tradition, what is evil is losing the balance.
Having seen the full 6 episodes Lucas has offered us, I now think that the idea of balance is the right idea. The Jedi had certainly misunderstood – they had thought that by opposing all attachment, shutting out emotion (particularly negative ones, but even love was forbidden), they could eliminate the danger of the dark side of the force. But they were wrong – the answer was not suppressing emotions but keeping them under control. In other words, balance. I have often thought that Anakin/Darth Vader could have said at the end of Episode III, “But I thought you said you wanted balance.” At that point, there are two Sith and two Jedi left. You could call that balance! In Episode VI, it is balance that Luke discovers and that enables him to redeem his father. Anakin had not learned balance: Dooku cut off his hand, he cut off both of Dooku’s and then his head. Luke sees that he has cut off his father’s hand, just as his father had cut off his, and pulls back from going any further. He says he is a Jedi, like his father was, but he has actually recovered something the Jedi had claimed to stand for but had lost sight of: balance.
TheoFantastique: Your website also includes links that explore religion in The Matrix and Contact. Can you touch on the differing ways in which religion is explored in these films?
James McGrath: I have a conference paper that is available that talks about some of the religious themes in the Matrix films. Although it was given before the final installment of the trilogy, I still think it is a useful discussion of some of the religious and philosophical traditions in the film. As for Contact, I really like the film, because on the one hand, it strongly emphasizes critical thinking, in the way one would expect from Carl Sagan, who gave the world the “Baloney-Detection Kit.” But it also shows parallels and places where the two can coexist. Sometimes there are things we have experienced, but for which we do not have proof. Seeking proof, seeking evidence, is a good thing, but that shouldn’t mean that we sit around doing nothing, and devote ourselves to nothing we cannot provide evidence for. The film also highlights the important fact that the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life raises issues for terrestrial religions. Authors such as David Wilkinson, Paul Davies, and Steven Dick have addressed some of these issues. Would Christians, for instance, believe that the aliens had had their own incarnation of God, their own revelation? Or would they try to evangelize them? Some of these scenarios have been explored in science fiction, mostly in short stories. Ray Bradbury’s “The Fire Balloons” is just one of many examples. Many religious believers set these issues aside and assume that there cannot be aliens, because of their Christian beliefs. But not all theologians find Christian belief and a more widely populated universe incompatible. If one wants to think seriously about theology in a context in which the possibilities explored in science fiction are widely known and taken seriously, then one has to tackle these issues in a much more thoughtful and serious way. Films like Contact provide a useful starting point for just these sorts of discussions.
TheoFantastique: Australian scholar Adam Possamai has written about hyper-real religions that draw upon science fiction and other forms of speculative fiction as sources of mythology for the religion. He discusses Matrixism and Jediism. Have you seen this phenomenon in your own research?
James McGrath: I haven’t looked into it much, except to note that there are parallels between fandom and religion, creating communities around a set of common passions. The Matrix and Star Wars seek to express ideas from religious traditions in a form accessible to a contemporary audience, so it is not surprising that they have adherents. But in most instances, I think that this sort of self-identification is more a way of rejecting traditional religious beliefs than genuinely developing alternative ones in any real sense. If there were any students out there who seriously had Jedi powers, they would use them in connection with classes: “You don’t need to see my assignments” (waves hand).
TheoFantastique: In my research I have been intrigued by the connection between Mormonism and science fiction. As Adherents.com notes, a large percentage of sci fi authors are LDS, and one of the most prominent is Orson Scott Card. And the late Marion K. Smith who taught at Brigham Young University spoke of a “link between Mormonism and speculative fiction” that in his view “is well-rooted in Mormon cosmology and theology.” Can you comment on this?
James McGrath: Glen Larson, creator of the original Battlestar Galactica, is another example. Mormonism explicitly includes the belief that there are other planets – indeed, my understanding is that their doctrine of the afterlife incorporates this. So it is not surprising that there have been a lot of Mormons connected with science fiction.
TheoFantastique: What do you think the near future holds in terms of the relationship between science fiction and religion?
James McGrath: The new seasons of Battlestar Galactica and LOST! I’ve got a book that I edited which I hope will come out soon that will touch on this. Initially, many seemed perplexed that religion and science fiction should ever intersect at all – one is speculating about the future, one is stereotypically thought of as being dogmatic about the past. But we’ve seen that interaction is not only possible but natural, and can be invigorating for both. I look forward to more – both more serious sci-fi that incorporates religious topics in some way, and more academic studies that take a deeper philosophical and theological look at recent science fiction. It not only provides for great thought experiments. It makes talking about very difficult issues fun.
TheoFantastique: Dr. McGrath, thank you again for your thoughts. This is an interesting area of research filled with lots of possibilities.
As readers may recall, I have been interested in the intersection between various expressions of so-called alternative spiritualities, such as Western esotericism, Neo-Paganism, and Wicca, with popular culture and the media. Of particular interest is how film and television has depicted Paganism, and more specifically, the figure of the Witch.
Helen Berger was very helpful to me in recommending a few resources to consider. One that I recently finished was by Emily D. Edwards, Metaphysical Media: The Occult Experience in Popular Culture (Southern Illinois University Press, 2005). This volume looks at the media in contemporary society and how the media has touched on “the occult” as presented in film and television. Curiously, given the modern Western context of the book’s focus, rather than defining “the occult” in keeping with the broad history of Western esoteric thought, Edwards defines the occult “as the remnants of abandoned religious beliefs” (emphasis in original) and due to this definition Edwards includes aspects of nineteenth century Spiritualism, “New Age,” Wicca, Neo-Paganism, as well as Christian charismatic phenomenon in her discussion. After laying a foundation on media studies and defining the occult, Edwards then moves to consideration of witchcraft, atavism, reincarnation, out-of-body experiences, and the divine animal (which includes lycanthropy).
For this reader, chapter four is the most valuable in the book: “Evil, Enchanting, Divine, and Ecstatic: A Century of Witches in Moving Images.” In this chapter Edwards assembles a filmography and describes her process by stating that she searched for “plot descriptions and reviews for keywords witch, warlock, shaman, wizard, spell, potion, sorcerer, hex, magic, and charm and then eliminating any film, video, or television program that didn’t depict in some fashion the idea of a human being with the supernatural ability to influence events.” From this criteria and the resulting filmography, Edwards then developed (or discovered) “eight noticeable portraits of the witch….” This includes
“the historical witch (attempting to describe real historical events and people);
the dubious witch (stressing skepticism about the witch’s magic);
the satanic witch (emphasizing the witch’s devotion and servitude to the Christian Devil);
the fairy-tale witch (emphasizing the singular witch with legendary magic, usually the benefactor or adversary of a youthful protagonist);
the shamanic witch (accentuating the exotic ‘otherness’ of foreign beliefs); and
the New Age witch(stressing the healing power Independence, ecofeminism, and/or goddess worship of the witch).”
Edwards also identifies a portrait which she categorizes as the ingenue witch, a portrait which emphasizes “the young witch’s discovery of self and magical power,”
and the enchantress witch, which may be understood as a figure “who maintains a powerful sexual appetite, seducing young men through deception, force, or uncanny charm.”
Edwards and her research assistants reviewed some 732 films in order to develop this typology or portraits of the Witch in film and television, and some interesting statistics came to light. First, the 1960s saw a dramatic increase in the number of media treatments that addressed the Witch, and this no doubt coincides with the rise of the counterculture and the increasing interest in alternative spiritualities. The number of media treatments remained high in the 1970s and 1980s but took a slight dip from those in the 1960s, but saw another increase equal to that of the 1960s in the 1990s.
Moving from the number of media treatments touching on the Witch by decades to the categories of the Witch by type referenced above, Edwards discovered that “[t]hroughout the century, the most predominant images of witchcraft were portraits of the fairy-tale witch. The second most frequently occurring portrait was the satanic witch, followed by the exotic other of the shamanic witch.” While I have not viewed all of the films that Edwards and her research assistants did in the compilation of their typology, I have seen quite a number of such film and television programs, and my own experience gives me a feeling that Edwards’ results ring true. The Witch is a figure that has come to the attention of most Americans via fairy-tale and folklore, and thus this has translated into presentations of the Witch that reflect this source. Edwards rightly argues that Disney cartoons and Harry Potter provide examples of this type of Witchcraft category. In addition, the horror film and horror television have been the second largest source that has framed the Witch in terms of connections to Satanism, as a review of (according to Edwards’ definition of “the occult”) Rosemary’s Baby, The Ninth Gate, and many Hammer films will remind the reader.
Edwards concludes this chapter with the following paragraph worthy of reflection:
“However categorized, the witch remains unconventional. All media witches exhibit some significant divergence from the dominant social conditions through gender, race, economic power, ideology, social status, or maturity. If not a woman, the witch is another character relegated to the fringes of a society: foreigner, child, outcast, or member of a hidden community. Even the male wizards who are the advisers to kings in a public and political sphere will often be regarded by other characters in media stories as illegitimate and suspect. More than discourse about the occult and the paranormal, media narratives about witches endure as meditations on ‘otherness’ and on fear of the ‘illegitimate’ power and enormous resolve this other might possess.”
I found Edwards’ typology and discussion in this chapter important, not only for understanding the variety of media portraits of the Witch, but also that these considerations can help inform the discussion on the relationship between the Witch as portrayed in the media and Witches or Wiccans who make up a part of Neo-Paganism. The lines of conceptualization and portrayal are often blurred and confused in this area, and Edwards’ discussion provides interesting elements to move the discussion forward.
Nevertheless, the book is not without its difficulties. Not only does Edwards include an awkward definition of the “occult” but she does so without reference to any part of the growing body of academic studies on Western esotericism.
The book also seems to adopt a subtle skeptical rationalism that hovers beneath the surface of Edwards’ analysis. In the preface, the author speaks of “occult traditions” that are the “legacy of supernatural beliefs, spurned rituals, and old stories disparaged by many Americans as silly or superstitious.” This is contrasted a couple of sentences later with the “Western heritage of reason” and a page later a reference is made again to “seemingly irrational occult themes.” The author’s rationalist perspective is also interesting in light of the previous discussion of her definition of the occult as “the remnants of abandoned religious beliefs.” Thus, in Edwards’ view, it appears as if the occult represents the superstition of a less enlightened era with a few vestiges that surface in various locations such as film and television. But surely this is inaccurate. While it is appropriate to consider the ramifications of rationality in connection with religious commitments, skepticism is not the only (or primary) perspective by which people approach their spiritual pathways. And “the occult” hardly represents abandoned religious practices or beliefs as the increasing interest in a variety of esoteric practices confirms.
Beyond this, the book incorporates a handful of factual errors. For example, in the endnotes for chapter four the author references the infamous occultist Aleister Crowley and refers to him as endorsing human sacrifice. While this claim is often made based upon a passage from his book Magick in Theory and Practice apparently referencing the sacrifice of a male child that on the surface appears quite damning, nevertheless, the passage is taken out of context which fuels the misinterpretation. In context, Crowley was referring to a process of ritual masturbation and the resulting “sacrifice” of the sexual potency in a spiritual context, but he was not referring to or advocating the literal sacrifice of a human being. In addition, human sacrifice would have been a violation of Crowley’s ethical code as articulated in the “Law of Thelema.”
An additional factual error is found in Edwards’ perpetuation of the claim that Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan, was involved in the production of Rosemary’s Baby. LaVey was known to make exaggerated claims, and sorting out the fact from the fiction of his grandiose lifestyle is not easy, but researchers need to take note of this and not perpetuate LaVey’s personal legends that have been countered even by fellow satanists such as LaVey’s daughter, Zeena, and her husband, Nikolas Schreck.
The book also includes other irritating errors about films, such as the inclusion of Tim Burton’s 2001 Planet of the Apes in a list of “sequels” when Burton claims the film was a fresh interpretation of the 1960s and 1970s Apes sagas. And when discussing the John Landis classic An American Werewolf in London, Edwards makes the claim that the character “David Kessler savagely murders his best friend.” Of course, Kessler’s friend was murdered by a werewolf near London in the film’s beginning, which then passes the curse on to him and which begins a murderous lunar-influenced nocturnal transformation and rampage. He kills many people, but not his friend. Perhaps only a horror nerd such as myself would recognize the problems with such misstatements, but these minor details detract from the overall strength of the book.
Yet despite these difficulties those involved in media and film studies as they relate to the occult in popular culture should include this helpful volume in their research. It provides many helpful considerations for reflection in this interesting area of popular culture.
Comic books are big business these days, and they attract the attention of not only children, but also many adults, and they increasingly provide creative concepts and stories for Hollywood films. Readers may be familiar with large comic production companies like Marvel, DC, or Dark Horse, but there is an up and coming comic company we have an opportunity to learn about today called BlueWater Productions. BlueWater is based in Washington state, and it was started by Darren Davis. Marc Lougee of The Pit and the Pendulum introduced us, and Jason Schultz, BlueWater’s vice present, helped facilitate this interview.
TheoFantastique: Darren, thanks for stopping by and taking time out of a busy production schedule to share some thoughts with readers. For those who may not be familiar with BlueWater, can you tell us how this company came about?
Darren Davis: I have been producing comics since 2001 at Image Comics and Alias. When Alias changed directions in publishing, I ended up self publishing our titles. We are staying on the smaller side doing about 5 titles a month. We have a deal with Ray Harryhausen to produce a line of comics with the film legend.
TheoFantastique: I have a thin connection to the comic industry through my brother who is a comic artist and creator of the Boneyard series. With this connection I’m always interested in how people become involved in comics. How did you personally develop an interest in comics and decide to make this your career?
Darren Davis: I loved watching Saturday morning cartoons as a kid. Superfriends was my favorite – so I started getting into comics from that. As for working in comics, I really never wanted to work in them. I just collected them. I was working at Lionsgate Films when WildStorm (DC Comics), doubled my salary to sell their services. While working there I was watching all these people creating their own projects and I thought I could do that. So after I left DC Comics I started my own line with the 10th Muse (which was the 6th highest selling comic on the Diamond chart for Nov 2001). I used my entertainment marketing background with my love of comics – so then a comic creator was born! It is funny that you mention your brother – because my brother writes for Bluewater. We have also gotten my 16 year old niece to write her own book (Violet Rose – out in Nov).
TheoFantastique: As you mentioned, your comic The 10th Muse was your initial comic production. You also did Legend of Isis. Can you tell us something about the storylines for these comics and how they came about and perhaps led to the creation of BlueWater?
Darren Davis: I saw what appealed to me in the comic book world when I was creating these characters. I really thought that TOP COW was doing it right. Amazing looking books with great stories. So I used them as motivation. I knew Randy Green from my DC Comics days and asked him to help me design the 10th Muse. I got Marv Wolfman who was my favorite writer to write the book. I have been a Greek mythos fan since I was a kid and thought this would be the perfect genre to do. So right after 10th Muse we developed takes on Atlas, Isis, Orion & Valkyrie.
TheoFantastique: One of your more interesting and noteworthy projects that has been mentioned in many comic, sci fi, and horror magazines is your comics that fall under the “Ray Harryhausen Presents” series. How did you come to be associated with Ray?
Darren Davis: I met Ray at a book signing up in my home town of Bellingham, WA. He was always an inspiration to me. I tend to create comics that have mythology ideas. So I gave Ray a couple of graphic novels of the book I produced and told him that he was my inspiration. I loved Clash of the Titans (even better than Star Wars – I know that is not very PC to say). I spoke with his manager, Arnold Kunert, at the event and asked him why there has not been comics with Ray. He told me many people were interested but flaked out. So in two weeks I had artwork and proposals on Wrath of the Titans, 20 Million Miles More and Sinbad: Rogue of Mars. The contracts were drafted up right after that.
TheoFantastique: How did you come up with the idea of new storylines based upon Ray’s classic sci fi and fantasy films, and has it been something of a challenge producing comics that live up to these infamous films and the standards of their even more infamous creator?
Darren Davis: When we did this deal, I did not want to make these adaptations off of the movies. So we hired writers that were passionate about the projects. I wanted to do what happened to Peruses, so I wrote Wrath of the Titans. Scott Davis wrote 20 Million Miles More – it is a modern take of the story (along with going to Venus to seeing where the Ymir live). Sinbad Goes to Mars was a screenplay that floating around Hollywood right after Clash of the Titans. When I was doing research on the projects this one really jumped out at me. So Rogue of Mars was born. I met the writer at a convention and his passion for the Ray line was insane. He told me that he would love to write all the Ray titles. At this point Greg Thompson is doing a couple. We also have David McIntee (who writes Dr. Who novels), writing Jason and the Argonauts.
TheoFantastique: What has the feedback been like from Ray and his agent Arnold Kunert on this project, and what has been the response of fans and readers of the comics themselves?
Darren Davis: Everyone is happy with the books. Ray and Arnold love the art and stories. We are really sensitive to keeping the feel of his films with the comics. We tend not to be too racy or violent in the books. The fans have been really supportive of the books as well. I get letters from people all the time about heir favorite Ray Harryhausen story.
TheoFantastique: Have you gotten any indication as to whether these comics might lead to a new generation of fans who, somehow, might not have been familiar with Ray’s work previously?
Darren Davis: We were sensitive to making sure that people can pick up these titles without the knowledge of Ray’s pervious work. My nephew who is 11 loves the comics and now has seen all the movies. We do also make sure there is lots of “Harryhausen” monsters and action in the books for die-hard fans.
TheoFantastique: I noted in reading Ray’s book Ray Harryhausen: An Animated Life, that there are several projects that Ray never got to see begin production. Is it possible that some of these might serve as sources for future comics with BlueWater?
Darren Davis: We are launching a bunch of new Ray Harryhausen Presents properties in 2008. Some of them are going to be ones that were never put into film production. The Eleme
ntals will be out in February which is one that I am really excited about. We are also doing ones called Flying Saucers vs. the Earth (which is from the perspective of the aliens). And we will also produce It Came From Beneath the Sea…again. We are doing these in conjunction with the release of the SONY DVDs. There will also be a tradional Sinbad story as well as an ongoing Wrath of the Titans story. Back to Mysterious Island is one that will be out in 2008 as well. We also have plans to showcase some of his Fairy Tales from his early years. The 1st one will be the Tortoise and the Hare that will be in the Ray Harryhausen Presents one shot in November.
TheoFantastique: I understand that you are preparing to launch a sci fi line in 2008 that includes a deal with Legend Films. Can you tell us a little about this, and an other projects we can look forward to from BlueWater?
Darren Davis: Some of the projects we are working on with Legend Films are SHE, Missile to the Moon and Plan 9 From Outer Space. I am really excited about this line. We did try getting the rights to the old tv show Buck Rogers but the rights were tied up. Other sci fi projects we have going on is bringing back Tom Corbett: Space Cadet.
TheoFantastique: Darren, thanks again for sharing with us. I wish you the best of success in your continued projects and look forward to many more years of creativity and entertainment from BlueWater.
Darren Davis: Thanks again for your interest in the Bluewater line!
The response to TheoFantastique and its subject matter has been better than I could have hoped. When I first launched the blog about a year ago I wondered whether I could find enough content, and an audience, for what I wanted to accomplish. Little did I know that I would be able to tap into my own reflections on the topic, and find many others willing to talk about the fantastic in popular culture. My thanks go to my readers and fellow contributors for making this blog successful.
Given the interest in this blog and its content I thought I would add two new features to enhance the experience. I recently created a Yahoo! group to facilitate ongoing and deeper discussion of the issues raised on this blog, and a Facebook group to faciliate social networking among fans and enthusiasts of the fantasic. I hope readers find these features useful as we continue to explore the fantastic together.
Readers may want to make a note about upcoming posts. In addition to my period blogging that includes commentary and academic analysis, readers can look forward to upcoming interviews including one with Darren Davis of BlueWater Productions comics; Jack Santino of the University of Pennsylvania will talk about the history and cultural influences of Halloween; Lance Weiler who produced the horror movie HEAD TRAUMA and is touring the country with the film as Head Trauma 2.0 ARG (alternative reality game) will talk about his film; Peg Aloi who writes on Paganism and media for Witchvox will talk about Paganism, fantasy, and entertainment; and James McGrath of Butler University will talk about religion and science fiction. We have a few other possibilities in the works, but they aren’t confirmed, so we hope that those mentioned will be enough to wet readers appetites.
I look forward to our continued journey together as we explore the fantastic in popular culture.
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Bill Ellis is Associate Professor English and American Studies at Penn State. He is well known for his contribution to folklore studies, in particular his books that include Aliens, Ghosts, and Cults: Legends We Live (University Press of Mississippi, 2003), Raising the Devil: Satanism, New Religions, and the Media (University Press of Kentucky, 2000), and Lucifer Ascending: The Occult in Folklore and Popular Culture (University Press of Kentucky, 2003). I have found Bill’s work very helpful in providing a folklore perspective on new religions, satanism, and satanic panics, but I discovered that Bill has also done research and writing in the area of anime as it relates to popular culture. In this post we will talk to Bill and tap into his expertise in this interesting area of pop culture studies.
TheoFantastique: Bill, thanks for making time in a busy academic schedule to provide some thoughts on an increasingly popular aspect of popular culture. I’ve appreciated and benefited from your work in folklore studies, particularly as it relates to new religions as well as the occult and satanic panics. But how does an academic working in folklore become interested in anime?
Bill Ellis: First of all, popular culture and folklore are closely related, since both relate to topics and issues that many people choose to be involved in. Folklore picks up many themes from popular books and TV shows, and the producers of popular media are constantly monitoring contemporary folklore and finding ways to include it in their productions. So, just as I was constantly watching the popular media, like the Harry Potter phenomenon, for insights into common persons’ interest in the occult, so too I immediately saw that the dramatic growth of interest in anime had a strong folklore element.
More immediately, my daughter, who was then in high school, was introduced to anime by her classmates and soon developed an interest in some of the series that were then being shown in English adaptations on commercial TV. As an interested parent, I wanted to know what she found attractive about these shows, and we ended up watching many examples together and then discussing them. As I learned more, I followed my own interests into series where legends and beliefs were used in the plots, and we eventually became great fans of the genre, but, amusingly, follow very different kinds of shows. She is much more interested in adventure-oriented shows with strong villains and a film noir feel, while I’m drawn to the shows in which magic and the supernatural play a role in showing the spiritual development of characters.
TheoFantastique: So you approach the topic both as a fan, and with your academic background as someone interested in the deeper issues related to the topic?
Bill Ellis: Yes, and there’s nothing wrong with liking many things about the topic that you study. I’ve studied many things that I didn’t like: for instance, legends expressing hatred against women and ethnic groups like Blacks, Jews, and now Latino immigrants, or creating panics by overstating the threat of alleged Satanists. At times I felt like this task was like consuming a hot bowl of maggot soup; but there was a social need for this material to be studied, and too few of my academic colleagues were doing it. It is a relief to begin to leave this material behind and study a topic that ultimately affirms what is good in the human spirit and supports young people in the difficult tasks that face them at the door of adulthood.
TheoFantastique: How popular has anime become in the United States, and is this primarily a phenomenon among the youth?
Bill Ellis: It has developed from a very limited market in the 1990s to a very broad interest group in this decade. At one time only the most successful series like Dragonball Z and Pokemon could be found easily in video rentals or stores, and only in heavily edited English-language version, now almost the full range of anime productions is available on VCDs, where consumers can choose whether to watch them in a dubbed version or in the original Japanese with subtitles. Likewise, the mangas or graphic novels on which many anime are based are becoming far more accessible, even in small-town book stores, and often in “unflipped” versions (reading “back to front” from the Western point of view) that are much more faithful to the original Japanese-language versions. This growth in availability obviously depends on a much broader base of consumers. Primarily this base is made up of younger readers, ranging from middle school up through college age. But increasingly older people are learning to appreciate manga and anime, as they learn that, among the many series that are simply produced for entertainment, there are an increasing number of productions that are genuinely complex and interesting as art.
TheoFantastique: Anime is the product of Japan and as a result it reflects much of Japanese culture. Is it important for American viewers of anime to understand elements of Japanese culture that come through in anime, such as its religions, mythology, and folklore? And if so, why?
Bill Ellis: Much of anime can be appreciated purely as story-telling, and as the studios know that their productions will be viewed all over the world, they do make an effort to stress universally engaging plots and characters and minimize the purely esoteric details. Still, myth and religion always lie very close to the surface, and many plot twists that seem odd to the Western eye are “just right” for an Eastern audience. Likewise, many of the plot details are the sorts of folk beliefs that the Japanese accept as part of everyday life, such as the belief that the number four is unlucky (it’s pronounced “shi,” which can also mean “death.”) So if something happens three times, then the audience is set up to expect that the fourth time will involve some kind of danger or misfortune. Also, butterflies are cute in Western decorations but signal some uncanny and possibly scary twist when they appear in anime, because this creature is associated with magic and a pathway into another world.
TheoFantastique: Let’s explore some of these elements, particularly the spirituality in anime. How does Buddhism and Shinto inform the allusions, metaphors, and symbolism in anime?
Bill Ellis: Japanese culture is influenced almost evenly by Buddhism, an organized religion imported from India through China, and by Shinto, which is based on Japan’s indigenous religions, which includes many private customs and beliefs. The two are not antagonistic, though they are rivals, and many series include implicit or explicit criticism of one religion from another’s point of view. From a Shinto point of view, Buddhists tend to be fussy and puritanical (and often hypocritically so, as in the Western jocular tradition of priests who are secretly gluttonous or lecherous). From a Buddhist point of view, Shinto worshipers are prone to rush in to situations where angels fear to tread, and ultimately get themselves into spiritual dangers where they need to be rescued by specialists with a keener sense of the psychological or supernatural forces involved. Buddhism is male-specific and informed by Scriptures (the sutras dating back to the Buddha’s circle of disciples); Shinto is more inclusive and experience-focused. The distinction parallels, in many ways, the rivalry in this country between traditional Scripture- and dogma-driven denominations like Catholicism and Lutheranism, and the less formal “Bible” churches that place more emphasis on religious experience and the direct involvement of spiritual forces in everyday life.
However, both Japanese religions agree on some fundamental levels. Both would agree that, ultimately, the individual must listen to his or her inner voice, and generate a personal code of behavior (or “dharma”) based on it. Personal integrity and sincerity count for more than moral behavior as defined through some external code of ethics, and an act that might normally be considered unethical for one character might be the only valid act for a person of a different background and situation. And many Japanese join with one religion or the other based on aesthetic rather than moral grounds: often one is born Shinto but buried Buddhist, simply because one religions has a more expressive service to mark these milestones.
TheoFantastique: Christianity surfaces in anime as well, but often in a negative way. Can you discuss some of the ways Christianity is depicted and why, and how this often negative portrayal might serve as a counterpart to negative depictions of eastern religions in American pop culture?
Bill Ellis: The Christian influence in Japan is a fringe one, tied up with the culture’s problematic relationship with the West. So Christianity is seen as a recent exotic import rather than a genuinely indigenous religion. The basic outline of the Christian scriptures are familiar, perhaps more so to Japanese than we are to the tenets of Eastern religions, but they are more often used for dramatic effect. The Western media would introduce an Asian character, often wearing a robe and a yin/yang symbol (or some other “Asian” symbol) and burning incense before a Buddha statue, to suggest someone who is uncanny and perhaps sinister in an “oriental” way. Think of Fu Manchu, Oddjob in Goldfinger, The General in the 2004 remake of The Ladykillers. So it is hardly a surprise to find that when a character enters an anime wearing a cross or an outfit that suggests clerical robes, we are to assume that this person is probably untrustworthy and prone to violence.
In the popular series Trigun, for example, one character is a priest traveling to raise money for an orphanage, and as he goes, he carries over his shoulder a huge and heavy replica of The Cross. However, he’s a good person to have along for a dangerous adventure, for we later find that his Cross actually contains six handguns, a machine gun, and a rocket launcher. On the other hand, the series St. Tail and Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne involve young girls who use Christian symbols to transform themselves “master thieves” (or kaitous), beings with super powers who steal valuable objects that are, in fact, stolen or spiritually bad for their owners. Their motives are good, but it is clear that as master thieves they operate outside the law, just as Christians seem to operate outside the normal spiritual landscape of Japan.
TheoFantastique: How is religious imagery used in creative ways in anime?
Bill Ellis: There are too many examples to discuss, but one that is especially pervasive is the belief, shared by both Shinto and Buddhism, of the pervasive spirituality of the natural world. As a creation of the Godhead, this world is felt to be permeated with spiritual power, which is everywhere but especially concentrated in certainly “power places.” The landscape is always an important player in anime series, with people continually gravitating to these power spots, whether they are in an wilderness region (as often in traditionally based stories) or even in urban landscapes (as in more contemporary plots), where the influence of the past is still felt in the middle of the apparently impersonal urban atmosphere. The manga/anime series xxxHolic [which isn’t pornographic, but simply explores the many ways in which we become dependent on habits or possessions that make us feel comfortable] is an excellent example. The main character is nominally a witch with the name Yuko Ichihara (the last name is also the name of a grimy industrial town near Tokyo, so she’s a “Natalie Newark” or “Susie Scranton”) who takes on a disciple and trains him in how to see and deal with the spiritual powers that continue to control our lives, even in a post-technological, computer-mediated world. Yuko won’t teach readers anything about practical magic, but they will come away looking at their daily god-given lives in a vastly different way.
TheoFantastique: Might anime as an expression of Japanese culture and spirituality with an increasing popularity in American pop culture represent an important area of academic study for those specializing in various disciplines like religious studies, media studies, and theology and popular culture?
Bill Ellis: Certainly, and I’ve seen an increasing desire on the part of adults, particularly educated ones, to explore this area. It is a vast subject, though, and many people are not impressed by the examples they first encounter, and say, “I don’t like anime.” But that just means they don’t like that anime: someone who reads a difficult book like Ulysses or The Sound and the Fury might equally say “I don’t like novels.” But like the Western novel, anime is a matured art form that includes many different kinds of plots and storytelling strategies. A really comprehensive collection of examples will fill a good-sized library room and take years to watch through once. One simply needs to be aware of the options out there and explore until you find something that catches you where you are in life.
TheoFantastique: What are some of the more interesting anime films that you would recommend for exploration?
Bill Ellis: A good beginning would be the films of Hayao Miyazaki, which are easily available and well produced by the Disney Studios. My Neighbor Totoro is a simple and affecting Shinto-influenced story about a family coming to terms with the spiritual influences of the countryside where they have moved, and Spirited Away is the adventure of a young girl whose parents are abducted by spirits in a power spot where they have strayed. She learns to play by the rules of the spirits, and gains the confidence and skills necessary to rescue them and return, matured and empowered, to her “real world.” Both these would make good watching and conversation for young children and parents.
For older audiences, I’d recommend a wonderful series called Haibane Renmei (High-Bonny Wren-May), roughly translating to “The Ash Wing Protectorate.” It makes abundant use of Christian imagery, but in a way that is more perceptive and sympathetic than those mentioned before. It concerns a group of young people who find themselves transported in some mysterious way to another world and given small gray wings and a not-entirely-functional halo. They have no memories of how they got there, and the Renmei, or association that oversees and protects them, is also reticent about why they were summoned or where they will go next. From a gentle start, the story becomes more and more intense as it becomes clear that at least two of the main characters were suicide victims, and that they are in a kind of limbo to recuperate and, if possible, gain the strength to move on to the next level up. While amusing and slow-paced at first, the issues and emotions build to a series of powerful self-discoveries that will affect both teens and their parents.
There are many more well done series and movies to look up: Saiyuki (based on a famous Chinese folk novel about the entry of Buddhism into that country) will educate the viewer into many of the tenets of that religion, even if it is influenced far more by American film noir than by the scriptures it refers to. Cowboy Bebop is another noir series that deals with the quest for practical ethics in a world where traditional values have been put into question by science and technology. For just plain fun, Christians should have a look at Hellsing, a totally over-the-top and thankfully tongue-in-cheek vampire fantasy that claims to present the conflict between Protestants and Catholics in a zombie-infested underground world beneath mysterious, exotic London. The heroic Protestant vampire, Alucard (“Dracula” spelled backward), whose ethics in fact come straight from the Shinto call for personal integrity, defies easy description: you just have to experience him, ideally in Japanese with subtitles, as the renowned Japanese voice actor George Nakata growls and snarls his lines unforgettably. (Caution! this series features absurdly unrealistic amounts of hyper-violence.)
But in general a good start would be to do what I did: pay attention to what friends and children are watching avidly, and to sit in, enjoy, and ask questions. Then follow up what interests you.
TheoFanastique: What books or other resources would you recommend for those who would like to explore this subject further?
Bill Ellis: For up-to-date news and easily accessed information on any series you hear about, you can’t beat Anime News Network. But for those wanting more of a historical understanding of the genre, two good introductions are Antonia Levi’s Samurai from Outer Space (Open Court, 1998) and Frederick L. Schodt’s Manga! Manga!: The World of Japanese Comics (Kodansha America, 1997). For those wanting to move to the next level, Schodt’s Dreamland Japan (Stone Bridge Press, 1996) give some important insights from his direct contact with the manga/anime industry (but caution: some of the examples he uses would be considered pornographic in this country). Also, Susan J Napier’s Anime: from Akira to Princess Mononoke (updated ed., Palgrave MacMillan, 2005) has some excellent insights, but is intended for an academic audience and might be slow going for others.
TheoFantastique: Bill, thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I look forward to my own continuing exploration of anime and popular culture and I think you for providing some further items for reflection.
Many who read TheoFantastique may enjoy comics and graphic novels, but few of us understand what goes into the creation and production of them. With this post we will gain a better appreciation of the inner workings of comics through an interview with Richard Moore. Rick is the creator of a number of comics, including Far West and Boneyard. He also happens to be my brother, so it wasn’t too hard to twist his arm for an interview.
TheoFantastique: Thanks for taking time out of a busy art production schedule to answer some questions that will give us some insights into the comic book industry, but let’s begin by exploring your background. What led you to become a comic book artist, and what artistic, literary, or cinematic elements influenced you in your art and storytelling?
Richard Moore: Well, TheoFantastique — may I call you TheoFantastic? — I’m actually a frustrated film maker. Or maybe frustrated would-be film maker is more like it. I’ve always loved movies, and wanted to be a writer/director, but never had the dough to pursue it. I’d read comics as a kid but lost interest as I got into fine art in high school. It wasn’t until I took a serious look at Bernie Wrightson’s Frankenstein and some of the things people like Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison were doing that I realized the potential of the medium for telling stories.
I couldn’t afford a 16mm camera, but paper’s cheap, and i could draw (though I have to say, it was a hell of an artistic U-turn going from “fine art” to “comic art”, and one I’m still struggling with). As for influences, they’re kind of all over the place. I love horror films, the good ones anyway, which is clearly where Boneyard came from. I don’t get to read much these days, but I love Tim Powers and Dan Simmons,and I just discovered Christopher Moore; his stuff kills me. I think there’s a law that if you can’t wind up as a comic artist without having been a Frank Frazetta fan as a kid. But a greatly underrated artist of the 20th Century was Norman Rockwell. People tend to dismiss his work as corny or old-fashioned, but his skill was amazing. My favorites, though, are the Pre-Raphaelites, especially John William Waterhouse.
TheoFantastique: What comic projects have you been involved with, and how can interested readers secure copies beyond their local comic book stores?
Richard Moore: Lessee. . .I started off with Far West — got pretty lucky right out of the gate with that one; Far West still has a cult fanbase. I’ll finally be getting around to new Far West material next year (fingers crossed). Then I did some shorter, one- and two-issue stories, The Pound and Deja Vu, and then was lucky enough to place Boneyard with NBM. The older stuff is mostly sold-out, from what I understand. There’s a collection of the first Far West story arc available from NBM, but for The Pound or any issues of Deja Vu the best bet would be to contact me directly, at richardmooreart@sbcglobal.net. And of course NBM puts out regular collections of Boneyard, in black-and-white and color editions. People can order directly from them at www.nbmpub.com, and of course a lot of bookstores are carrying graphic novels these days.
TheoFantastique: While comics are obviously a visually-driven form of storytelling and media, nevertheless they need to have a good story behind them as well. In your creative process, what comes first for you, the elements of the story or the visual images?
Richard Moore: The nudity. That, and the characters. If it’s an ongoing series, that is. No matter how much i might like a given story idea, I can’t actually put it on paper until the characters become “real” for me. With an ongoing series, like Boneyard, I know the characters so well that I just plug them into a story and let them behave according totheir personalities. If the characters aren’t dictating the direction of the story, I know the whole thing is in danger of becoming artificial and forced. With a stand-alone title, the story definitely comes first. An image might inspire an idea for a story, but I then need to work out at least the basic structure so I have a context for the visuals. One trick I learned writing screenplays was to visualize the movie trailer. That gave me the spark, the exciting visual high points. . .but again, I had to have that story in place to start with.
TheoFantastique: As you’ve discussed, your current project is Boneyard, a comic that I would (probably poorly) describe as a horror-comedy piece. Can you summarize this series for readers and tell us why you were drawn (literally) to this type of project?
Richard Moore: I don’t think there’s any real horror in Boneyard, but that’s a common description of the series. It’s a natural assumption, when you look at a cover and see a vampire, a swamp creature, a werewolf.. . Basically, Boneyard is about a guy, Michael Paris, who inherits a piece of land that happens to contain a cemetery. A cemetery inhabited by monsters. He comes to realize that you can’t judge by appearances, andwinds up living with the outcasts. The only drawbacks for Paris are the occasional demonic plot or zombie outbreak they have to deal with. Of course, the fact that he has it bad for Abbey, the resident pretty vampire, makes it all a lot more bearable. My original concept was to do a sitcom in comic form. I just happened to pick monsters as characters because of my love of the old, classic horror films. If you look at my two current favorite shows, you’ll see the same basic structure: likeable characters interacting and dealing with problems in funny ways. The only real difference is that Boneyard is framed by dramatic story arcs that feature some larger threat.
TheoFantastique: What do you enjoy the most, and what is your greatest struggle as a comic book artist?
Richard Moore: Again, nudity. (Hold, for laughter.) I think the best thing is still the reason I got into the field: I can tell stories in ways that would be much more difficult and immensely more expensive to tell through film. For some reason I am compelled to tell stories; if Ididn’t have this outlet, all those characters running around in my head would drive me nuts. The greatest struggle — well, there are two, actually. The first is the workload. It takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to producea comic single-handed, much more than people would imagine. That’s whythe big publishers have teams working on their titles. My readers are constantly asking for more of this title, more of that title; they’d love Boneyard to be bi-monthly instead of quarterly. But it just isn’t possible — and this is coming from a confirmed workaholic. Second wouldbe exposure. I’d ideally like to reach a wider audience, but advertising’s expensive, and I’m ultimately dependent on my publisher.Shame, too. If they’d only invest a little in my work, I could make them very, very rich. Ah, well. *sigh*
TheoFantastique: Do you have any other projects you are working on, or are planning on in the near future?
Richard Moore: I’m going to be starting a web comic called Gobs,hopefully next year. It’s about a bunch o
f goblins who are barred from their favorite pub, so they build their own. . .in the petrified body of a dead giant. Think Cheers with dragons, cranky wizards, and exclusionary zoning laws. I’m also doing a miniseries for Antarctic Press, called Fire and Brimstone. The titular characters are a demoness and a cherub forced to round up a wide variety of demons and rogue angels who’ve escaped fromthe afterlife into our mortal world. It’s basically a buddy comedy, with big guns, hot girls and lots of supernatural action. A little furtherdown the line readers can look for a fantasy detective story called Dragonthorne, probably coming out through Archaia Studios Press, and Billfur,a kind of animated movie in comic form, about a duckbilled platypus who finds himself in the middle or a North American forest with no memories of who or what he is. He’s joined by a semi-crazed squirrel escaped froman animal testing lab, and together they set off to discover who the platypus is, and where in the world he belongs. Then there are some children’s books I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. . .so yeah, I’ll be busy for awhile.
TheoFantastique: Rick, thanks again for taking the time out of your schedule to share with readers. I hope this interview gives them a little glimpse into comic book creation, and perhaps some new readers and fans of your work.
As I have shared on this blog before, one of my major influences on my love for the fantastic and the imagination as a child (and continuing as an adult) was Ray Harryhausen, the noted stop-motion animator, special effects wizard, and science fiction and fantasy storyteller. Through my relationship with Marc Lougee as a result of his interview on the first of the “Ray Harryhausen Presents” projects I was put in touch with Arnold Kunert, Harryhausen’s friend, producer, and agent. Mr. Kunert agreed to share some of his thoughts on his long-time association with this special effects legend.
TheoFantastique: Arnold, thanks again for agreeing to participate in this interview. Marc Lougee of “Ray Harrhausen Presents” The Pit and the Pendulum was kind enough to connect us and it’s my privilege to have this time to share your work and association with Ray Harryhausen with fans. To begin, can you share some summary thoughts of some of the work you’ve done as a producer, film historian, and as an agent?
Arnold Kunert: Most of my work as a producer and film historian has been in the area of documentaries. I have written, produced and directed documentaries about a variety of subjects and individuals, but my most honored and best-known works have dealt with film director Budd Boetticher and voice artist Daws Butler, who was responsible for creating most of the famous Hanna-Barbera characters, among which were Huckleberry Hound, Yogi Bear, Snagglepuss, and many others. Ray Harryhausen asked me to be his agent several years ago because he trusted my judgment and knew how much I cared for him. I represent no one else. Frankly, representing Ray Harryhausen is just fine with me.
TheoFantastique: One of the features of this blog is an interaction with the fantastic in popular culture which we explore on both popular and academic levels. I noted in my research for this interview that you wrote an article for The Journal of Popular Culture in 1973 titled “Ray Bradbury: On Hitchcock and Other Magic of the Screen.” Have you had the chance to do any other writing on topics like this?
Arnold Kunert: In the mid-1970s, I wrote for a magazine in La Jolla, California, and was given free rein on my subjects. Among my first, and most enjoyable pieces, was a profile of Steven Spielberg which appeared in print less than two weeks before the opening of Jaws nationwide. I delivered a copy of the article to Steven at Universal Studios and wished him well on his career. No one outside the industry really knew his name at that time, so I am proud that I was among the first to recognize his talent. His TV-movie, Duel, based on a Richard Matheson short story, convinced me that he was someone worth watching. Obviously, I was right. I planned to publish other articles about film heroes of mine like Samuel Fuller and Jack Arnold, but the magazine folded before I had the opportunity. Nevertheless, the dozen or so articles I was able to see published made the venture worthwhile. I was teaching high school and college English classes at the same time, but the writing and interviewing gave me an opportunity to “stretch” my writing skills a bit and get a little extra cash in the bank at the same time.
TheoFantastique: Like so many people, I grew up as an avid fantasy film fan, and Ray Harryhausen was a strong influence on my own desires to be a stop-motion animator which was unfortunately never realized. I recall his long association with producer Charles Schneer, but some fans may be less familiar with his association with you in recent years. How did you and Ray come to know each other and develop this professional association?
Arnold Kunert: I was introduced to Ray Harryhausen by Ray Bradbury, whom I have known since 1970. Bradbury, a friend of Harryhausen’s since the late 1930s, knew of my admiration for Harryhausen, so he arranged for us to meet during one of Harryhausen’s occasional visits to the U.S. in the late 1970s, around the time of the release of Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger. We became friends and maintained a long-range relationship via letters and phone calls from then on. In 1992, I successfully campaigned to get Ray Harryhausen a Lifetime Achievement Oscar and in 2003 I arranged for him to get a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, across the street from Graumann’s Chinese Theater on Hollywood Boulevard, where a 13-year-old Harryhausen had first seen King Kong in 1933. Ray has told me on more than one occasion that he considers me someone who “gets things done.” That may be true, but I have put a special amount of energy into seeing that my hero from the 1950s, whose little black-and-white films were so thrilling to see in Chicago theaters, is properly honored.
TheoFantastique: What types of things have struck you about Ray’s vision and imagination over the years?
Arnold Kunert: Ray has always impressed me as the type of artist who never worried whether someone didn’t particularly like the direction he was taking in his career. I suppose that’s a hallmark of all great artists, but Harryhausen is absolutely unique in that regard because his influence on the film industry has been so widespread for so many years that he stands alone and above all other technicians who have ever labored in the industry. He has certainly been frustrated by small budgets and time restrictions on his films, but the overall list of credits from the late 1940s to the early 1980s is astonishing by any standard. He is virtually the only artist in Hollywood who has had an influence on more than two generations of filmmakers. No one else can make that claim. Just look at the Oscar nominees and winners for visual effects since the late 1970s. The vast majority of them acknowledge Ray as their inspiration.
TheoFantastique: Can you touch a little more on Ray’s continuing and far-reaching influence?
Arnold Kunert: Ray’s films are just as relevant and enjoyable today as when they were first released. Audiences still respond to heroes and legends. Were that not the case, Spielberg wouldn’t be shooting a fourth Indiana Jones adventure, the Pirates of the Caribbean films would not have been so successful and Jackson’s Lord of the Rings trilogy would never have been funded. Spielberg, Johnny Depp, and Peter Jackson all point to Ray as an inspiration, so why wouldn’t Ray’s films be just as successful today? Whenever Ray is in town, three different generations of admirers, from small children to the children’s grandparents, anxiously tell Ray how much his films mean to them.
TheoFantastique: What types of projects has Ray been working on since retiring from hands-on special effects work?
Arnold Kunert: Most recently Ray has been supervising the colorization of his black-and-white films from the 1950s, all of which would have been shot in color had the budgets allowed for it. Color photography during that time period was twice as expensive as black-and-white, so he was forced to use black-and-white film stock until Seventh Voyage of Sinbad. Ray is involved with other film-related projects, but I am not at liberty to discuss them at this time. Watch for the latest news on his web site, www.rayharryhausen.com.
TheoFantastique: One of these projects is the “Ray Harryhausen presents” umbrella endorsement of certain noteworthy items. How did you come to share this idea with Ray?
Arnold Kunert: I felt that Ray’s name on a project might help that project gain some credibility which it might not ordinarily have gotten. I remembered that Steven Spielberg attached his name to a variety of films in the 1980s, as Steven Spielberg Presents, such as those directed by Robert Zemeckis, Joe Dante and Chris Columbus, and thought having Ray’s name used in the same way might give some very talented artists a chance to get the spotlight which might otherwise have eluded them.
TheoFantastique: The first of the projects under this umbrella was Marc Lougee’s fine stop-motion film The Pit and the Pendulum. Marc has given an interview on this topic recently, but how did you feel this project went as the first of those endorsed by Ray?
Arnold Kunert: Ray and I are very impressed with Marc Lougee’s Pit and the Pendulum. Ray and I have known Marc for many years, so we were not surprised that the short film turned out so well.
TheoFantastique: Arnold, thank you again for this interview, and for your partnership with Ray Harryhausen that has enabled him to continue producing many fine pieces of entertainment and art for new generations of fans.
Arnold Kunert: It’s been my pleasure. Thank you.
For a while I’ve thought that there is a difference between terror and horror. And I’m pleased to find that others agree with me. For example, in Bruce Lanier Wright’s book Nightwalkers: Gothic Horror Movies – The Modern Era (Dallas, TX: Taylor Publishing Company, 1995), he writes that in his view there are two kinds of fear. For him, “the first kind is the body-fear of pain, of injury, when you become a bit more aware of dying.” He calls this kind of fear terror. While he recognizes this as a valid type of fear that is often transformed into entertainment, he distinguishes this from another type of fear called horror. As Wright continues his description of horror he says:
“Horror is something quite different, and far more rare. …Horror is a fear unconnected to thoughts of your personal welfare. Horror has nothing to do with you, in that respect. Horror is impersonal.
“You fear a madman because he might harm you. You fear a ghost, if you happen to find yourself doing so, simply because of its existence – which is a crucial distinction of horror I think.
“An element of awe is always present in true horror. Animals feel terror, but they can’t experience horror; it’s a human sensibility, a peculiar intellectual fear. In effect, horror tells us that our maps of ‘reality’ are incomplete, that some impossible thing can in fact happen. The inexplicable tends to awaken a nebulous sort of panic in us, a suspicion that the universe is even stranger and more uncertain than we had imagined it to be.”
Although I disagree with Wright on some of the specifics (e.g., horror can be connected to fears of bodily terror, and it is often both impersonal as well as personal), I think he makes an important distinction in the types of fears we experience (and dread). With this distinction in mind as applied to current horror cinema, the crop of horror films being released by Hollywood for the last several years (such as Hostel and Rob Zombie’s recent take on Halloween) it appears as if much of it focuses on gore and bodily mutilation (including torture) that stirs up fears of terror rather than horror.
Personally, I don’t find films that elicit feelings of terror all that frightening, and I have no interest in the current slasher, gore, mutilation, and torture films. I don’t find these films very creative or compelling in their stories or in the emotions they are able to dredge up on the part of the viewer. Certainly there are exceptions to this once in a while, and a film like The Ring is a good example, but here we find a film that elicits fears of horror rather than terror, and it took the influence of horror as found in Japanese culture to influence American filmmakers, and perhaps its a good thing that American horror has received an injection of creativity from another culture.
But it may be that there is another source that might provide inspiration for horror in American cinema as a way beyond the current terror trend. Zombos Closet of Horror Blog included a post not long ago titled “Gore is Easy: Terror is Hard.” The post interacted with an article by Clive Thompson from Wired magazine titled “Gore is Less: Videogames Make Better Horror Than Hollywood.” Zombos blog does not use my terminology but he draws a similar distinction, one between gore and terror, and Thompson’s article touches on this as well as he discusses his dissatisfaction with many contemporary horror films that he sees lacking as a source of suspense and horror, and for him another source has provided an alternative to “the current trend toward torture-chic and metric tonnage of blood in scary movies.” He says that “for several years now, I’ve found that my favorite horror games experiences aren’t coming from movies any more. They’re coming from games.”
I understand Thompson’s feelings. I have enjoyed a few of these types of games on my Sony PlayStation 2 (forgive me, but I don’t have the discretionary funds yet to upgrade to a PS3 or to secure a X-Box 360), including Nightmare Creatures, Resident Evil 2, BloodRayne, and Dracula Unleashed. As Thompson compares current Hollywood horror films with horror in videogames he notes that:
“In contrast, the best scary-game designers have quietly perfected the interplay of tension and release that makes for a truly cardiac horror experience. They have, in a sense, become even more faithful interpreters of the horror tradition moves than Hollywood directors.”
He goes on to describe his experiences with BioShock, and its ability to generate a “free-floating anxiety.” He compares what some of these horror videogames are able to create in the mind of the view with dreams and nightmares:
“Games already seem like dream states. You’re wandering around a strange new world, where you simultaneously are and aren’t yourself. This is already an inherently uncanny experience. That’s why a well-made horror game feels so claustrophobically like being locked inside a really bad – by which I mean a really good – nightmare.”
We have all had the experience of waking from an awful nightmare with our hearts pounding, palms sweating, and a brief instant of uncertainty about whether we are awake and “safe,” or whether the nightmare was the reality. The experience we have during nightmares often touches more on the feelings created during an experience with horror rather than terror, and it may be that videogames provide us with not only a better experience of horror that some of us desire than many of Hollywood’s current crop of producers and directors. Until we interact more with other cross-cultural sources of horror for inspiration, here’s to hoping that videogames, and perhaps comics, exert greater influence on the celluloid nightmares of the future.
This blog explores a variety of facets related to the celebration, enjoyment, and a deeper examination of the genres of the “fantastic,” including horror, science fiction, and fantasy. As my readers may recall from a previous post on The Sci Fi Boys documentary, one of the most influential and moving forces in my childhood in this area was Ray Harryhausen, the great stop-motion animation and special effects wizard who thrilled a generation with his creatures and stories of fantasy. Ray has had a huge influence on any number of directors, special effects technicians, and of course, other animators of whatever type. Ray’s work also continues to spawn new creations produced by this new generation of storytellers, and one such filmmaker is Marc Lougee. I recently became aware of his work through an advertisement in Rue Morgue Magazine which featured a short film introduced as Ray Harryhausen Presents Edgar Allen Poe’s The Pit and the Pendulum. Marc’s film debuted in 2006 and has been shown at over 65 international film festivals, and has won several awards as a result. You can read more about this film and its success not only at the official website for the film linked to above, but also on its blog. And a short trailer can be viewed here. Marc graciously agreed to answer a few questions about this interesting project.
TheoFantastique: Marc, thanks again for your willingness to talk with us about this project. While stop-motion animation was once one of the major forms of special effects for bringing the fantastic elements of stories to the screen, with the advent of computer generated animation and effects it has largely gone the way of the dinosaurs that Willis O’Brien and Ray Harryhausen used to animate in their early days, with the exception, of course, of its use in commercials, children’s programs, or the all too infrequent animated treat by Tim Burton. I experimented with my own stop-motion animation as a teenager in the 1970s, even as the technology was being developed that would eventually replace it, and sadly, I gave up this dream for a career path. Thankfully, you pressed on. To begin, how did you get interested and involved in stop-motion, and what kind of influence was Ray Harryhausen in this process?
Marc Lougee: I grew up watching Creature Double Features. I was a huge fan of creature and special effects-oriented films from the 50’s to the 70’s. King Kong, War of the Worlds, Forbidden Planet, were all favorites. Everything with Ray Harryhausen’s name on it was a must-see, regardless of killer bees, my older brother or nuclear attack. Watching those films really gripped me, and while I sat there with my eyes glued to the tube, with no idea there was a bunch of folks making a living doing this.
It wasn’t until I got into high school that I found I could even function as an animator. That was a real revelation, to know enough about the process to see how little one needs to start with the very basics. Encouraged, and knowing just enough to make me dangerous around cameras, I started to experiment for my first filmmaking class. I figured even even Ray Harryhausen had to have started somewhere, so I got to work making short animated films on Super-8 using GI Joes, Micronaut figures and clay creature as puppets. The first few attempts went pretty well, considering I really little idea of what I was doing, but I plowed on and had fun. Soon enough the other kids in the class were more interested in what I was up to than their own stuff. I wound up shooting some shorts for other kids in the class, the equivalent of writing book reports for people, only I was making short films. I had found my calling. I especially enjoyed the total hands-on approach of stop-motion. It was a really immersive experience to build everything, work out the camera placement and movement, and tell a story (the few times I bothered with a story in those days).
TheoFantastique: How did Ray’s name come to be associated with this project?
Marc Lougee: In early 2005 Ray’s producer, Arnold Kunert got in touch to see about firing up The Fall of the House of Usher as a stop-motion short film, which Ray would helm as Executive Producer. Susan Ma, producer on The Pit and the Pendulum and I were just floored this opportunity had presented itself, so we got to work on checking the viability of the project within a time frame we could manage. We were both contracted to start shows inside of two months, but really wanted to do a film with Ray and Arnold. We concluded we couldn’t do the story justice with the resources we had available, which was a bit of a disappointment all around. Knowing Ray had his heart set on Fall of the House of Usher, and Susan and I being eager to keep the embers glowing meant we needed to find another story everyone would be happy with, so we pitched another perennial favorite, The Pit and the Pendulum in place of Fall of the House of Usher. Ray and Arnold were receptive to the idea and the reasoning behind our decision. The Pit and the Pendulum was then slated as the first film produced under the Ray Harryhausen Presents banner. Needless to say, were excited, enthusiastic, and really thrilled to see this amazing turn of events.
TheoFantastique: Poe’s work, particularly in The Pit and the Pendulum, has been the focus of various cinematic treatments before. What made you decide to approach this material again, and in such a fresh way?
Marc Lougee: The story sort of found me, actually. After reading the The Pit and the Pendulum, I saw this as a story of judgment, condemnation, despair, hope and a man’s faith in a power greater than himself. It’s classic; this guy, a prisoner, is brought to the lowest place in his life, totally powerless to save himself. It’s there he concludes he’s run out of options, and seeing he can’t save himself, realizes salvation is ultimately going to come from a power greater than he.
I felt our short film would be touching on one of the bigger questions of humanity: Is there anyone there to save us after we’ve done all we can do? Is it possible to maintain hope, or even faith in something, when all seems lost? These questions really resonated with me, and I wanted to get this across in the story. This prisoner is suffering horribly at the hands of self-righteous fiends, and in the end, who does he have to turn to? He’s at the very bottom of his capabilities, with two choices; dive into the pit, and succumb to the Inquisitor’s whims, or stay alive, in hope he’ll be saved. I feel it’s in those moments we find what we’re made of, what we really believe. The film has proven an interesting starting point to open up dialogue concerning the questions raised in the story itself. The aspects we sought to steer clear of was to “re-imagine” Poe’s tale, as I felt with the proper handling, it would still be powerful. It didn’t need to be altered to horrify, it’s already there.
TheoFantastique: Why did you choose to tell this story using stop-motion, and how do you combine this with computer graphics and other effects?
Marc Lougee: Stop-motion animation is like watching a continuous magic trick, an illusion. The illusion is life. Like sculpture or photography, animation depicts moments in time, only incrementally. I just love the idea, that with incremental positioning of a puppet one can create this illusion. The magic trick is the life-like qualities the animator can lend to the performance, the subtleties, expressions, mannerisms. Like acting in slow motion. I feel it’s a wonderful way to transport an audience to a fantastic place, where folks can leave expectations of realism at the door. By virtue of the fact an audience is watching puppets “acting,” it frames a story in a completely different way than say, live action. It’s a wonderful story-telling device, setting folks up to use their imagination freely. In the case of The Pit and the Pendulum, I felt the material could be really horrifying, and maybe too heavy for a wide audience. I wanted kids to have access to the story, so they could see a visual interpretation of Poe’s literature without being freaked out, or horrified. Stop-motion ,being this fun, whacky technique associated with a youthful audience, was a perfect medium for us to present the story, as it could still be creepy and scary, while keeping the integrity of the tale intact without being too heavy.
Switch VFX Visual Effects Supervisor Jon Campfens, VFX artists Gudren Heinze and Dave Alexander were responsible for all the CG-based visual effects. Dave and Gudren did a masterful job of modelling, texturing, painting and assembling all the disparate elements from the shoot, matching the set, miniatures and CG stuff seamlessly. One shot of note was of the bird struggling to escape through the barred window. Switch produced this as a totally 3D-CG shot. We didn’t have a window constructed, nor a bird, so Dave modeled the wall, window and bird, and lit the shot to match the rest of the film perfectly. Gudren handled the composite & rotoscope work, set extensions, and atmospheric effects, while Yowza Digital dealt with the bird animation. Just wonderful work. Susan and I were totally pleased.
TheoFantastique: What has been the reaction to this film, on the part of the general public, film critics, and the horror and animation subcultures?
Marc Lougee: The response has been just fantastic! Susan and I have attended a few festivals as our schedules allow. I was recently in New York attending our screening at the Museum of the Moving Picture, preceding Lance Weiler’s HEAD TRAUMA ARG show (The Pit and the Pendulum is currently touring with Lance’s show across North America and Europe). The crowd burst into applause a couple of times. That was pretty cool. We also got to the Williamstown Film Festival, and met up with Brad Silberling ( Lemony Snicket’s Series of Unfortunate Events). He had heard of the film though the festival programmer and asked for a copy to bring back with him to LA! He was very cool and very interested in seeing our film. That made our weekend.
TheoFantastique: Do you have any future productions in the planning stages?
Marc Lougee: We’re currently working on a couple other projects in the outline stage. One of the stories is a classic Washington Irving tale, another is a short story by Mark Twain. There are several other Victorian stories I’m interested in pursuing, as well. The atmosphere, textures, furniture and clothing of the period lend themselves beautifully to stop-motion. I would love to get the Edgar Allan Poe’s Fall of the House of Usher into production to fully explore what we could do with the aesthetic.
TheoFantastique: Marc, thanks again for sharing with us, and for telling us a great old story in new ways that thrills young and old alike.
My friend Kim Paffenroth who writes on science fiction and horror, and whom I met this year at Cornerstone Festival when he spoke on his book on George Romero’s zombie films, recently let me know that copies of his earlier book that he co-authored with Thomas Bertonneau, The Truth is Out There (Brazos Press, 2006), are now available for $10 that includes postage and handling. Orders must be placed through Kim. See his blog for more information.
