how do you locate wicca in the context of western esotericism? could you help by explaining this a bit more???

i would really appreciate it if you reply the explanation to meltopbgt@yahoo.com

Thanks!!!!!

About the lure of black magic – many people do see magickal practice as very much a psychological pursuit. Sometimes you are faced with ‘demonic forces’ which are usually of your own making. If you can’t find a way to integrate these parts of yourself, you’ll most likely have a breakdown. In that situation, you can’t hide from yourself and pretend everything will be okay because your religion will protect you. Magic itself is neutral – it’s what the person brings to it and does with it that matters. Most practitioners don’t ever deal with that kind of dark magick because they know better. But I really think that individuals’ own illnesses and issues are what leave them open for despair, not the occult. It could have easily been something else that helped them along the way. And as so many Hollywood movies show us, culturally we associate the occult with that kind of despair. So which came first?

On this topic, I would highly recommend Lon Milo DuQuette’s book, The Key to Solomon’s Key, as well as his autobiography, My Life with the Spirits, which I’ve used in class. DuQuette’s approach is very accessible and he does use a psychological interpretation of demonology – in fact, he talks about the Goetia, the medieval grimoire attributed to Solomon, as a book of invokable demons who are really aspects of the self that must be integrated. You can’t destroy them because they’re part of you, but you can’t repress them either, because sooner or later they’ll come back and bite you in the ass. In some cases, magic can be seen as a very imaginative and performative kind of therapy.

I’ll take a look at your blog later.

“Think of how your consciousness shifts when there’s lots of incense and chanting in Latin (I’m talking high mass, not magick – though the line between the two is thin!) Much of magickal activity is a shift in consciousness where you’re outside of your mundane self and feeling connections beyond yourself. So sometimes it really is the SAME appeal as those who get that out of going to church. But I guarantee you most (not all) people who attend church don’t reach those heights.”

Heck, I feel that shift in consciousness with a good cup of coffee. I agree that all of life and nature is sacred. I will not go so far as to say that nature id therefore divine.

I believe God is both mysteriously transcendent and immanent. Christ became like us, to show us the way, and we killed him. Hardly something to be proud of, but isn’t that a form of assuring your own salvation ?

I have the book by Crowley, and am currently reading through “Magick Without Tears” as well. I would love to read your new essay on th and 7th season Willow. I am fascinated by Joss Whedon’s perspectives on spirituality. (As ontologically crazy as they are . . .)

I posted my thoughts on your interview regarding my limited understanding of the occult.

http://allhallowseve.wordpress.com/

It is coming from a heavy medeival perspective, which I think you can handle. Go ahead and rip me to shreds in the comments if you want. I have learned a few things from you already and have a broader perspective.

My main concern regarding the occult is that it seems to open the individual up to oppression and obsession caused by demonic forces.
Two individuals I know have plummeted into despair and suicide after delving in black magic.

You said: “everyone needs to be their own savior and make up for their misdeeds in this life.”

Reminds me of the Angel series. No amount of good deeds can atone for the bad. The gray aspect of moral lines in Whedon’s world kind of exploit the reality that even our good intentions and deeds can be tainted by evil desires.

Willow was saved by Xander’s love. Xander was saved by loving. Seems like Willow’s reciprocal act was surrender.

btw, I’m not Dominique Wilson – I’m the guy who was interviewed. The link to my original Buffy article is in the interview (though I wrote a follow up that I’ve yet to publish, that goes deeper into the implications of 6th and 7th season Willow).

As far as what’s the appeal? Every practitioner is going to have a different answer. I suspect the reason why Biblical sources come down so hard on the sorcery is for the very reason you claim it’s attractive: you ‘covet that power.’ This is also the same reason why many practitioners would recommend against someone with that desire getting into magic.

There are many reasons why people enter alternative religions, or practice magic. The more you read and the more people you talk to, the better picture you’ll get.

Feminist witchcraft was certainly born out of a desire to escape confining, patriarchal notions of divinity – allowing for positive representations of women and reverence for the body and sexuality, all things sorely lacking in most monotheistic religions, many of which have taught that women and women’s bodies are evil and sinful. Many women (and men) believe that nature, the body, and sexuality, are not sinful but sacred. Also, many people believe that the Christian perspective on the afterlife (in extreme cases, that they’re just biding time, waiting for the Rapture), allows for an abdication of responsibility in this life. That this allows for a neglect of the environment, for instance, because Christians believe in a transcendent God and not an immanent one. This is one of Starhawk’s major tenets (one that I don’t wholly agree with). Also, Pagans tend to decry the notion of a god sacrificing themselves for their ’sins’ – some believe that this takes away responsibility from the individual (it’s okay to sin in this life, as long as I go to confession before I die). Rather everyone needs to be their own savior and make up for their misdeeds in this life. For many people, it’s the difference between empowering yourself and laying your fate in the hands of others, which I believe is why Christianity had such a hold over medieval Europe – Christianity helped to reinforce class differences, extreme poverty, oppression and divine right of kings.

Granted, much of this is based on particularly broad assumptions about Christianity and Christians that are not true across the board, but yet seem to cohere with how hegemonic Christian culture represents itself.

For me, when I first read Israel Regardie’s Tree of Life, I was struck by the notion that the Qabalist/ceremonial magician was dedicated to the process of purifying oneself and raising one’s consciousness, ever seeking communion with the divine, and by doing that you were raising the consciousness level of the whole universe. This seemed to make a lot more sense than the notion of ‘being good’ so you can go to heaven, which was rammed down my throat after 16 years of Catholic education. I felt that no matter what good you were doing, it was ultimately selfish so that you could get into heaven. As I said, this is simply my experience. And anything I’ve done in this realm has been infinitely more ‘powerful’ for me than anything that happened in my Christian background (at the same time, Christianity is a part of my religious makeup and I don’t deny its power and its role in making me who I am. Jesus is still a strong archetypal figure for me). I don’t deny that others have powerful experiences within Christianity and I fully support those people, to the extent that they also claim that’s what works for them and don’t try to tell others that their experiences are wrong and sinful.

That’s the religion part. As far as the experience part, that’s even more individualistic. I’ve felt closer to God (and I don’t even necessarily mean a Pagan deity, but a Prime Mover) doing performance, doing ritual magic, drumming around a fire and connecting to community, than I ever felt in a church. Ok, I’ve had some great internal experiences in churches, too, but hardly ever when there was a mass going on.

Think of how your consciousness shifts when there’s lots of incense and chanting in Latin (I’m talking high mass, not magick – though the line between the two is thin!) Much of magickal activity is a shift in consciousness where you’re outside of your mundane self and feeling connections beyond yourself. So sometimes it really is the SAME appeal as those who get that out of going to church. But I guarantee you most (not all) people who attend church don’t reach those heights.

If you’re interested in reading up on any of this, I’d recommend reading texts by Lon Milo DuQuette, and look at some of his sources, particularly Aleister Crowley’s Magick in Theory and Practice. Overall, I’d be careful about romanticizing, exoticizing and othering magic and magickal practitioners too much – I really believe that this type of attitude (by both its detractors and supporters) is what has kept it so continually marginalized in our society, even when it’s so present and acknowledged in the mainstream, as these tv shows and films demonstrate.

I am a Christian because it offers resurrection from death, immortality,and eternal bliss. I’d be lying if I said it was anything else. I am not in it because it is benevolent, kind and good for the environment. So, I want to know what paganism, magic, witchcraft, and other occult practices have to offer if it does not look like the stereotype of film and fiction?

None of the books I have read get into anything beyond a very similar idea to Taoism. Wholeness, balance, inner peace, etc. . .

In Christianity, we drink the blood of our God and His ghost lives within us. We gain immortality through the God who became flesh and blood to die at our hands. We will rule with him in a kingdom without end. Pretty potent stuff.

And visigoth, when you state, “Why would one wish to be a practitioner of witchcraft unless you really can heal someone, float items through the air, light candles with simple words, or curse someone who has done you wrong?,” I think we as Christians need to be more sensitive to and aware of the long history and sophistication of thought in Western esotericism, and recognize that it offers far more to its practitioners than such parlor tricks. Thus, even though no one is seeking such things this does not mean that their absence does not mean that this spiritual pathway has nothing to offer, and that Christians should not take it seriously.

More thoughts for our critical reflection.

I believe the Bible is portraying a historical account. If the witness in Pharaoh’s court was deceived, or the historian at the event where Saul visited the witch was subject to legerdemain, does not matter. I cannot prove or disprove the validity of either account.

I read this article: http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/1268/1/WilsonF.pdf
after posting my comment. If you are the author, good job. I found it a bit more helpful. I am working on a response to the interview and that article that I will soon post on my blog. (http://allhallowseve.wordpress.com/)

I liked both the Buffy series and Angel, and am trying to understand them from my Christian perspective.

My initial response now is what in the world do you mean by “magic” if you do not mean supernatural abilities. The only enticement I can see towards the occult is exactly that aspect. Do modern practitionaers of magic move things with their mind? Conjure the dead? Heal people? Levitate?

If not, what is the appeal?

If what Willow portrays through her use of magic is not part of authentic Wiccan practice, then I can see how Wiccans might feel misrepresented. But honestly, what use is magic if you cannot use it to make someone fall in love with you, or form energy shields to protect you from demons, or heal someone you love from cancer?

You say it is experiential? So is a drug induced hallucination.

Your point about Willow not becoming the wanna-blessed-be is well taken. I forgot it was actually Giles that cast the empathy mojo on her.

Also, the use of magic changes with the times. During eras when people were desperately disenfranchised, necromancy (invoking the spirits of the dead) was a common practice. Whether it actually worked was another thing. But nowadays, people take a much more psychological approach to magic, so they apply it to improving their lives. Of course, magic can still be the tool of the disenfranchised (look at New Orleans voodoo, for instance).

Skilled magic-users also tend to be very careful about how they apply their magic. In most cases, they exhaust mundane channels first, before they resort to magic. Also, I suggest you do some reading about the history of magic in Western occultism, and the difference between ‘practical’ magic and ceremonial magic. While the former is all about getting things done (with much less emphasis on ethical behavior), while the latter is more about aligning yourself with the Divine, through prayer, meditation, and ceremony (like Qabalistic magic, for instance). This is also the ‘religious’ element to magic that we never see depicted, and what usually draws people to the practice in the first place. Here, people ‘actually invoke Pagan deities’ as well (and angels and demons, too). Modern magic is experiential – the kind of thing you wouldn’t fully understand unless you experience it. Thus the Mystery. If you’re looking for special effects, I’d suggest studying stage magic.

Finally, does Willow become a ‘wanna blessed be’? Absolutely not! If you read my essay, or saw that episode, you know that those young women were using the language and trappings of feminist witchcraft to identify with, but had no knowledge of the actual content and history of magic and witchcraft. In Buffy, magic was often a metaphor for addiction – the warning that she was using too much magic became about a dependency issue – plus the implication was that the more you use magic, the more it uses you. Although I don’t know of cases in real life, I can certainly see how one can become ‘addicted’ to the high of constantly living in a magical world. Willow’s magic was most powerful when it came from a place of rage, pain and hurt (esp. with Tara’s death). In the final season, she learns how to access that power from a more positive source (by feeling connected to people, nature, etc. – remember, the Slayer spell in the finale was all about connection, not isolation, unlike her previous magic), so that she’s not merely a slave to her passions. At the end of season 6, Giles’ attempt to provide Willow with empathy backfired because he thought she would stop hurting people, but he underestimated her despair, so deep that she would channel that empathy into destruction to ’save people from suffering.’ I would have liked to have been shown a scene where she works with the coven that she mentions in 7.1, but the process was happening. But Willow ultimately becomes far more powerful, even than she was in season 6, and that’s from training, knowledge, and balance. This is as far away from a wanna-blessed be as you can get.

Having said all that, Buffy is a fictional world, and in reality, things are much more complicated than black and white, good and evil. Which is why I mentioned the fact that many practitioners decry the ‘fluffy bunny’ image of witchcraft and argue that sometimes you need to delve deeper than that, and take risks.

Why would one wish to be a practitioner of witchcraft unless you really can heal someone, float items through the air, light candles with simple words, or curse someone who has done you wrong?

After reading several books on witchcraft/wicca I became bored with the whole modern idea of it. The movies and TV shows are way more appealing than the so-called “real thing”. The magicians of Pharoah actually did change their staffs into serpents. The witch of Endor actually did conjure the dead. What the bible represents as magick is much more potent than the benign mother-earth goddess worship that some of my friends practice. I do not honestly see the appeal to the benevolent “blessed be”, do no harm variety of paganism. What is the appeal?

I always found it funny that in BtVS, the scoobies warned Willow at one point that she was using “too much” magic. I thought, so what, isn’t that what the point of magic is? But they seemed to draw an arbitrary line between what was good and evil regarding an occult practice that in all forms historically has been seen as evil by the Church. Medicine is good, but dependency and side-effects of medicine are not good, and therefore in one sense, evil. But magick always seems to rely on supernatural principalities or powers. Willow actually invokes pagan dieties for the big rituals. The small stuff, like using energy as strength or protection spells, still implied that she was opening up to elemental forces, and yet she seemed to have no way of determining whether they be demonic or angelic. The fact that the dark magic did overtake her in the end was also ironic. After all, she was trying to rid the world of suffering, the collective torment of humanity that she felt. The only way that could happen was to destroy the world. Xander comes along to save the day with the yellow crayon metaphor and she snaps out of it by realizing that suffering is necessary. But, she does not give up magic. She tempers it to some amorphous harmony working with nature and not against it, guided by a sense of Wiccan “goodness”. Does not Willow become the very wanna-blessed-be she made fun of at the end of the series?d